I've given the community guide for credits a revamp on how best to update credits and it can be found at the link below.

https://films.discogs.com/wiki/community-guide-to-credits

With all the issues regarding credits in different languages and duplicates and other issues I thought best to try and put together a rough guide on a one direction to move in.

The key point to this thread is to get some other viewpoints on this and find ways to develop this guide so we can all move in the same direction.

You say majority of credits from that country being in English, I'd say it makes sense to list them in English.

in guides you say

Credits for individuals should be titled under their the most known name in their native language.

You say 2 different things! i would rather them in English you say that first so i am sticking with that, theother makes sense only for Russians.

Incorrect, I said names should IDEALLY be listed in their most known name in their native language UNLESS their more known in English and give the example of Jackie Chan.

I then make the point of CREATING new credits in English until a proper searching system is in place.

Two completely different points, the first is a general system to work by in the , the second is a current work around until their is an improvement in credit search.

Ok, shouden't we just add new credits in English anyways that should be the best way around duplicates.

Along with them easier too find.

UG1002 wrote:

Ok, shouden't we just add new credits in English anyways that should be the best way around duplicates.

That's what I said

TheWho87 wrote:

I then make the point of CREATING new credits in English until a proper searching system is in place.

To help with the goal of doing native language for films for foreign films, perhaps follow the rule of having the credits themselves be in English text, but use name variants for the foreign films themselves to put in their foreign names there. Then when those foreign stars are in English or other films, no name variants would be needed in that case, as the native language of those films would likely be English. Later on, those film specific name variants could be taken out when an ANV system with multilingual presentation support is available. The name variants in those cases could help automation of foreign name aliases for the credits themselves when an ANV system is put in place. With the credit names in English, for the most part this would help for the time being in spotting duplicate entries before they are entered.

One thing I've been doing is when there is a deviance in the way different references name a credit to what their name is stored here (i.e. name order for Asian references, or imdb's bug in not providing support for many ASCII characters like Ş in their credits, that you put the spelling of the credit of the credit name for the site on the comment field for the site field so that they show up next to the reference when looking at the credit, to help people quickly see where there might be differences in the way the credits have been put in on different sites, to help establish the proper name on filmogs.

Here's an example for a Turkish actress credit I just updated, with the site spelling notes to help people see how IMDB misspelled her name with their site bug not allowing ş characters, in case someone has her imdb credit for another film.

https://films.discogs.com/credit/270990-nurgul-yesilcay

mikewn wrote:

To help with the goal of doing native language for films for foreign films, perhaps follow the rule of having the credits themselves be in English text, but use name variants for the foreign films themselves to put in their foreign names there. Then when those foreign stars are in English or other films, no name variants would be needed in that case, as the native language of those films would likely be English. Later on, those film specific name variants could be taken out when an ANV system with multilingual presentation support is available. The name variants in those cases could help automation of foreign name aliases for the credits themselves when an ANV system is put in place. With the credit names in English, for the most part this would help for the time being in spotting duplicate entries before they are entered.

That makes sence, the core credit page is in English and then the local language on the film using an ANV.

mikewn wrote:

One thing I've been doing is when there is a deviance in the way different references name a credit to what their name is stored here (i.e. name order for Asian references, or imdb's bug in not providing support for many ASCII characters like Ş in their credits, that you put the spelling of the credit of the credit name for the site on the comment field for the site field so that they show up next to the reference when looking at the credit, to help people quickly see where there might be differences in the way the credits have been put in on different sites, to help establish the proper name on filmogs.

Here's an example for a Turkish actress credit I just updated, with the site spelling notes to help people see how IMDB misspelled her name with their site bug not allowing ş characters, in case someone has her imdb credit for another film.

https://films.discogs.com/credit/270990-nurgul-yesilcay

I think I've come across that and may have accidently remove them, now I know I'll take note, I'd also suggest maybe listing all name variations in the notes.

IMDb can be confusing with some credits, for example they use Ô for their Japanese credits while from my limited knowlage they would use Ō, technially both are a correct translation but one is more commonly used (Ō) and when I've corrected credits duplicates would then pop up using the IMDb format

TheWho87 wrote:

I think I've come across that and may have accidently remove them, now I know I'll take note, I'd also suggest maybe listing all name variations in the notes.

IMDb can be confusing with some credits, for example they use Ô for their Japanese credits while from my limited knowlage they would use Ō, technially both are a correct translation but one is more commonly used (Ō) and when I've corrected credits duplicates would then pop up using the IMDb format

I'm familiar with Turkish language a lot more, having lived there for about five years of my younger life. Note that the example I gave, even the Turkish site did a English like translation to help people pronounce it properly. Removing a cedille is in effect giving it a different letter. In the case of s and c, they are also legitimate DIFFERENT characters in their alphabet than the ş and ç characters. I think earlier IMDB had problems wih the the ç charactes also being replaced with regular c, but that doesn't look to be an issue any more. Note that there is also differences the way that I and i characters are handled too in that languge.

The pronunciations of each of these characters are as follows in what someone would say in English:
s,S - (pronounced "s" equivalently)
ş,Ş - (pronounced "sh" in Turkish)
c,C - (pronounced "j" in Turkish)
ç,C - (pronounced "ch" in Turkish)
i,İ - (pronounced "ee" in Turkish)
ı,I - (pronounced "uh" in Turkish)

Read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_alphabet

Notice how the lower case "i" isn't equivalent to "I" like it is in English. Notice how an example I point to up there has the Turkish site spell one character with an English speaking audience in mind when they substituted a "j" for a "c" character in one of their names and still had the native spelled name next to it.

If we really want to and I think filmogs if done right can be viewed as MORE friendly to foreign speaking audiences like Turks if we spell their language that is English-like and not completely foreign like Cyrillic, properly in the native language.

I'm sure that other languages have more similar concerns with IMDB's mispelling of their names, etc. in their database, when there is no real perceived reason why they shouldn't spell it properly. If they are going to substitute these charactes away, they should at least substitute "sh" for "ş" characters to get proper phonetic pronunciation. Turks would understand that more than just mispelling of their names, etc. that is done now, when they mix some of their extended characters in and leave others out.

I've made a minor update to the wiki, just adding the following

If a credit is most known with having their name abbreviated with letters, for example G.W. Bailey. Don't include a space between the letters, for example don't use G. W. Bailey.

If a credit contains a nickname with quotations, for example "Weird Al" Yankovic. Use quotation marks (") rather than apostrophes (').

Hopefully this should help with some uniformity for credits

TheWho87 wrote:

I've made a minor update to the wiki, just adding the following

If a credit is most known with having their name abbreviated with letters, for example G.W. Bailey. Don't include a space between the letters, for example don't use G. W. Bailey.

If a credit contains a nickname with quotations, for example "Weird Al" Yankovic. Use quotation marks (") rather than apostrophes (').

Hopefully this should help with some uniformity for credits

I try to make it equivalent to what is stored in imdb, so that people find dupes when they type it in. I noticed a difference in one credit from what they put in and updated it with other changes (adding photos, links, etc.). Would be nice to ensure that in the search functions for the site that ' and " characters are equivalenced along with others noted here to ensure that whatever we choose to standardize on the site won't be a problem if people try to put in the same credit with the "opposite" quotation characters.

Yeah this is a IMDb/Wikipedia use issue, for the spaces it sides with IMDb's format, when it comes to quotations it sides on Wikipedia.

This is more for setting a a finalised format when cleaning up.

Waiting for staff to make any changes will take it's time so might as well sort a system out and work to that.

Seems okay, 'cept for that bit about dupes. You have it suggested that one uses the credit with the most attributed entries rather than the lowest page #. I thought we were supposed to do the opposite... did this change?

Also, isn't a lot of this futile at this point? I mean, without searchable aliases for credits and companies, won't the dupes just keep comming back? I don't mean to discourage, I just feel that there are better things we could be doing on the site than editing and re-editing every credit. When I found that there was no way to add aliases I just quit messing with credits for the most part. Then again, I have ton's of releases and films to add.... maybe some of you dont?

Plus, why hasn't the staff around here ever addressed this issue? Is it too complex to code?

I would side with # because when going through dupe pages most but the lowest number # not other way around.

Nivekian wrote:

Seems okay, 'cept for that bit about dupes. You have it suggested that one uses the credit with the most attributed entries rather than the lowest page #. I thought we were supposed to do the opposite... did this change?

I just think it's more logical, if there are two credits for the same person, one with 10 and one with 2, with the one with 2 being older/with the lowest page number, that the page most linked to films is the best one to keep, and easier to change the two films to the main credit.

If there are only 1-2 films on each page, make the page with the lower number as the main and move the films over.

Nivekian wrote:

Also, isn't a lot of this futile at this point? I mean, without searchable aliases for credits and companies, won't the dupes just keep comming back? I don't mean to discourage, I just feel that there are better things we could be doing on the site than editing and re-editing every credit. When I found that there was no way to add aliases I just quit messing with credits for the most part. Then again, I have ton's of releases and films to add.... maybe some of you dont?

I get that logic, why bother fixing it if it needs info added later, but considering how long it's taking the staff to put these changes into effect we may be waiting ages.

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