i know this will be lots of work but as forign language credits are not searchable unless you put the forign in no credit comes up and you assueme none is here so you create a new credit.

i would like to keep these credits in forign, but since they are not searchable will staff add this as a funtion or shall we (The users) start correcting them in English so all can find if Russian is not your main language.

Example none of the Japanese, Arabic or Korean credits are in Japanese or Korean only film titles, as Arabic was changed.

For example these credits are more then likely duplicates and they could of been avoided if the ones allready on here were searchable example. https://films.discogs.com/film/396438-kod-apokalipsisa

maybe some of these as well https://films.discogs.com/film/398645-mio-min-mio

Approve the suggestion well, the Cyrillic entries are more than difficult, since only a few of us speak Russian and therefore it cannot be checked whether it is a duplicate.

Stop translating names from original languages! If an artist is known in a certain country, then he should be called in the language of the country.

Еxample this solved on Discogs:
1. https://www.discogs.com/artist/658660-Владимир-Высотцский
2. https://www.discogs.com/artist/299966-Mireille-Mathieu

What makes sense that we now have two entries for an artist.

One in Cyril script, which only Russian-speaking users can read.

And a version translated into English as it is used in all international databases and which all users can read.

Then why should we use the Cyrillic version? We also do not use Japanese, Arabic and Chinese names in the original language.

And it is a bit different with Discogs, because the search engine searches for ANV entries, which is not the case with Filmogs.

For this, variations of the name were invented. They will be available later.

This also applies to movie titles.

The site imdb.com has a lot of incorrect data (year, authors, original names). Check on other bases.

ensden wrote:

For this, variations of the name were invented. They will be available later.

The problem here is that right now that does not exist, I do agree that names should be listed in the language of their country, but since there is no ANV search options for credits it would make more sense to list them in English and then rename them when any ANV search is added.

I'd argue some kind of ANV credit search is desperately needed, that's the only way to fix this issue that won't stop until something like this is put in place.

The problem here is that right now that does not exist, I do agree that names should be listed in the language of their country, but since there is no ANV search options for credits it would make more sense to list them in English and then rename them when any ANV search is added.

I'd argue some kind of ANV credit search is desperately needed, that's the only way to fix this issue that won't stop until something like this is put in place.

We are also uncomfortable. We also do not know the languages, but we are doing it right. Use the translator.

What's really needed is ANV edit field on the credit and company pages.
This would solve so many of the batabases prblems.
Film pages have alternate titles, why not credits and companies?
Been suggesting it for months!

ensden wrote:

Stop translating names from original languages! If an artist is known in a certain country, then he should be called in the language of the country.

Еxample this solved on Discogs:
1. https://www.discogs.com/artist/658660-Владимир-Высотцский
2. https://www.discogs.com/artist/299966-Mireille-Mathieu

Yes but if that person starts appering in English based movies this is why duplicates are made.

And also on discogs they have 2 listing for the same people like.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/28795-Prince - main profile

https://www.discogs.com/artist/3957944-King-34 - one of the 100's of alias used whdn it should be an ANV and not a complete new credit.

Did I understand correctly that it was already agreed not to create names in Arabic, Chinese, Japanese or other characters?

If this is the case, then I do not understand why an exception is made to the Cyrillic script (Russian).

Why not just everything in English. English is the world language and should be used that way. Russian users can understand that they would like their language, but as a German speaking user I would like that too.

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone should be Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone because that's how Rowling named the novel and movie is UK (Read: Rowling is English) production. For same reasen i think Soldaat van Oranje should be used.

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone American title like Harry Potter en de steen der wijzen is Dutch title.

marco.leistner1 wrote:

Approve the suggestion well, the Cyrillic entries are more than difficult, since only a few of us speak Russian and therefore it cannot be checked whether it is a duplicate.

Disregarding the more complicated issues relating specifically to credits for actual people, I don't agree with this.

I don't speak Russian/similar languages whatsover. Or Japanese. Or German. Or French. I can still eyeball my way through subs with the aid of Internet queries and online translators.

Apathy is not an excuse for submitting incorrect data, especially when it comes to speciffic release pages and original film titles. And keeping track of duplicates when you or I did not make the submission is hardly worth fretting over if submitters can't be bothered to provide enough data to differentiate things (scans, complete notes, links to other sources, etc.). Garbage subs are garbage subs, duplicate or not.

Mycdhitzone wrote:

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone should be Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone because that's how Rowling named the novel and movie is UK (Read: Rowling is English) production. For same reasen i think Soldaat van Oranje should be used.

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone American title like Harry Potter en de steen der wijzen is Dutch title.

It should be changed too original title as in rules films should be added in oiginal language.

ensden wrote:

The problem here is that right now that does not exist, I do agree that names should be listed in the language of their country, but since there is no ANV search options for credits it would make more sense to list them in English and then rename them when any ANV search is added.

I'd argue some kind of ANV credit search is desperately needed, that's the only way to fix this issue that won't stop until something like this is put in place.

We are also uncomfortable. We also do not know the languages, but we are doing it right. Use the translator.

Translators also give out false names / words, they are not acurete

I think the priority should be to make sure every credit have an IMDb and/or Wikipedia source, them still not perfect but at least it's something, and they can be referred to for English speakers.

Ideally at some point, we will an ability to specify the language of our choice and have translation done of text in to our language, and the ability to add and refine foreign text translations of textual passages on the site.

I think there's even an opportunity for Filmogs to be BETTER than imdb is with the basic Unicode character set, since it doesn't allow many extended unicode characters that are essential in languages such as Turkish for proper translation such as Ş and Ç. Filmogs could have a better site just even supporting proper unicode text and equivalencing text such as Ş and S, amongst other characters that IMDB doesn't support, so that it can encourage proper spelling of even unicode foreign text and catch duplicates that the incorrect spellings of IMDB that people will search for while entering in data can be identified quickly and help users correct their entries too before adding duplicates.

I keep a separate window open and just doublecheck forein names I add searching within Filmogs serch window rather than just depending on the interace to add new credits to identify them as it seems that this general search does better equivalencing to find such duplicates now. Fixing the editing interfaces to offer the ability to provide the same duplicate checking that the site does on it's search fields would help a lot.

And on the topic of Cyrillic spelling of credits, film names, etc... Note that if you look at the web entry for a character with a Cyrillic name rather than an English text name, what is used as the file name in the web url. Hmm... The site DOES translate those Russian names to English text in this case so that it can create web URL filenames. Now often some of these translations aren't the complete proper spelling of the text, but it's start. And perhaps if we do get translated version aliases as a more pronounced part of the site, this could be a good start. Have not only a Russian Cyrllic text name added as a credit have a translated filename, but also add that text as an alias field to help with identifying duplicates for others that enter English equivalent texts for the same credit later to help spot duplicates. These filenames could be used to build up the database as a start too once a set of alias fields are added. The translated data already exists for many foreign spelled text entries in the system.

As an example for the foreign spelled name in discogs, look at the link for filmogs and how it is spelled. Here it is. Again, the name isn't completely equivalent to other English name translations (vladimir-vysotskii vs. Vladimir Vysotskiy), but I think it is close enough and could be used to help spot duplicates.

https://films.discogs.com/credit/77461-vladimir-vysotskii

Here's an example of a credit page that we spell the credit's name more properly than IMDB does, using the sinematurk source as the reference for it's spelling. Many like that here on this site. We should be making sure that we equivalence letters so that when entering the IMDB name it finds this credit properly, and in the same fashion finds other more properly spelled names properly as well. Note that the logic in the code used to create the spelling of this filename could also be used to help to avoid duplicates of credits like these too.

https://films.discogs.com/credit/328503-nejat-isler

mikewn wrote:

Here's an example of a credit page that we spell the credit's name more properly than IMDB does, using the sinematurk source as the reference for it's spelling. Many like that here on this site. We should be making sure that we equivalence letters so that when entering the IMDB name it finds this credit properly, and in the same fashion finds other more properly spelled names properly as well. Note that the logic in the code used to create the spelling of this filename could also be used to help to avoid duplicates of credits like these too.

https://films.discogs.com/credit/328503-nejat-isler

And note even the Turkish site makes compromises but shows both the more native spelling in parenthesis, as it is probably harder for non-Turkish people to understand that "c" is pronounced as a "j" in Turkish, which is less obvious than other characters like s with a cedille would have people look it up to find out pronunciation in that case.

TheWho87 wrote:

I think the priority should be to make sure every credit have an IMDb and/or Wikipedia source, them still not perfect but at least it's something, and they can be referred to for English speakers.

It helps but how are we suppose to find the credit in the searchbar if nothing comes up?

For example lets so i find vladimir vysotskii on english film.

i type vladimir vysotskii into the credit searchbar nothing comes up even if its written in the profile nothing comes up.

So i think this credit is missing so i add the new credit.

it's a repile effect unless they start appering in the searchbar or another solution we should add them in crylic.

UG1002 wrote:

TheWho87 wrote:

I think the priority should be to make sure every credit have an IMDb and/or Wikipedia source, them still not perfect but at least it's something, and they can be referred to for English speakers.

It helps but how are we suppose to find the credit in the searchbar if nothing comes up?

Search for a movie featuring this artist on other sites. Better on movie origin sites.

UG1002 wrote:

For example lets so i find vladimir vysotskii on english film.

i type vladimir vysotskii into the credit searchbar nothing comes up even if its written in the profile nothing comes up.

So i think this credit is missing so i add the new credit.

it's a repile effect unless they start appering in the searchbar or another solution we should add them in crylic.

Use Wikipedia, as a rule the original name of the artist is written in brackets.

UG1002 wrote:

For example lets so i find vladimir vysotskii on english film.

i type vladimir vysotskii into the credit searchbar nothing comes up even if its written in the profile nothing comes up.

So i think this credit is missing so i add the new credit.

it's a repile effect unless they start appering in the searchbar or another solution we should add them in crylic.

Use Wikipedia, as a rule the original name of the artist is written in brackets.

The artist base will be combined.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/15885-Michael-Yatkson - look bookmarks: Discography, Books, Posters, Films

ensden wrote:

The artist base will be combined.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/15885-Michael-Yatkson - look bookmarks: Discography, Books, Posters, Films

That is only if users edit discogs page and add these links

ensden wrote:

UG1002 wrote:

For example lets so i find vladimir vysotskii on english film.

i type vladimir vysotskii into the credit searchbar nothing comes up even if its written in the profile nothing comes up.

So i think this credit is missing so i add the new credit.

it's a repile effect unless they start appering in the searchbar or another solution we should add them in crylic.

Use Wikipedia, as a rule the original name of the artist is written in brackets.

And what if there is not a Wikipedia page for indie actors from Russia?

why is this credit in Russian if he is from Switzerland??

https://films.discogs.com/credit/388711-viktor-vitkovich

born in Geneva last time i checked geneva was Switzerland not Russia.

Credit should be changed as he has appered in Finnish, Swiss and Russian films as a writer.

UG1002 wrote:

why is this credit in Russian if he is from Switzerland??

https://films.discogs.com/credit/388711-viktor-vitkovich

born in Geneva last time i checked geneva was Switzerland not Russia.

Credit should be changed as he has appered in Finnish, Swiss and Russian films as a writer.

Victor Vitkovich screenwriter. He was born in Switzerland. He was a citizen of the USSR and lived, worked in the Soviet Union.

UG1002 wrote:

ensden wrote:

The artist base will be combined.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/15885-Michael-Yatkson - look bookmarks: Discography, Books, Posters, Films

That is only if users edit discogs page and add these links

Work on the merger of all the bases ".ogs" is still ongoing. Most likely one large base of everything will be found. We go to this site "Filmogs" using discogs account.

UG1002 wrote:

And what if there is not a Wikipedia page for indie actors from Russia?

IMDb.

IMDb and Wikipedia should be the two prime sources for everything on this side film/credit wise, are they 100% accurate, of course not, but their a starting point and in tandem can be used to cross reference.

I tend to work from the film, if you can find that then you can find the credits, then you can cross reference the credits listed here and on there and correct errors/duplicates.

I agree it would be easier for credits to be listed in English until a proper ANV search system is in place, however I don't see the point renaming pages to do that, I would however argue if a page is in another language that all effort is made to link to IMDB and Wikipedia as well as including an English name, be it as an alternate title or in the notes.

TheWho87 wrote:

UG1002 wrote:

And what if there is not a Wikipedia page for indie actors from Russia?

IMDb.

IMDb and Wikipedia should be the two prime sources for everything on this side film/credit wise, are they 100% accurate, of course not, but their a starting point and in tandem can be used to cross reference.

I tend to work from the film, if you can find that then you can find the credits, then you can cross reference the credits listed here and on there and correct errors/duplicates.

I agree it would be easier for credits to be listed in English until a proper ANV search system is in place, however I don't see the point renaming pages to do that, I would however argue if a page is in another language that all effort is made to link to IMDB and Wikipedia as well as including an English name, be it as an alternate title or in the notes.

Can live with the suggestion, but still no one could answer my question.

Why is there such an exception for the Russian language, all other Asian and Arabic language pictures are not used when entering the name.

lets all agree to have credits in crylic so they are not hidden.

it would be easier to add these names in the profile thats what we agreed on for Arabic and others.

marco.leistner1 wrote:

TheWho87 wrote:

UG1002 wrote:

And what if there is not a Wikipedia page for indie actors from Russia?

IMDb.

IMDb and Wikipedia should be the two prime sources for everything on this side film/credit wise, are they 100% accurate, of course not, but their a starting point and in tandem can be used to cross reference.

I tend to work from the film, if you can find that then you can find the credits, then you can cross reference the credits listed here and on there and correct errors/duplicates.

I agree it would be easier for credits to be listed in English until a proper ANV search system is in place, however I don't see the point renaming pages to do that, I would however argue if a page is in another language that all effort is made to link to IMDB and Wikipedia as well as including an English name, be it as an alternate title or in the notes.

Can live with the suggestion, but still no one could answer my question.

Why is there such an exception for the Russian language, all other Asian and Arabic language pictures are not used when entering the name.

There are many languages with Cyrillic characters: Belarusian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Serbian, Ukrainian and others. I believe that both Arab and Asian groups should be in the original language + alternative names.

they would be easier to find if all credits were in English.

UG1002 wrote:

lets all agree to have credits in crylic so they are not hidden.

it would be easier to add these names in the profile thats what we agreed on for Arabic and others.

ment to say.

lets all agree to have credits in English so they are not hidden.

it would be easier to add these names in the profile thats what we agreed on for Arabic and others.

UG1002 wrote:

they would be easier to find if all credits were in English.

Next time can you actually do some bloody research and not go in like a bull in a china shop, I've just had to go through and fix you mess.

If your tagging pages as a duplicate, LINK TO THE ORIGINAL PAGE IN THE DUPLICATE!!!

Add to that, update pages and link sources on what is deemed to be the main page, since you need to find that information to confirm a pages English ADD IT TO THE MAIN PAGE!!!

UG1002 wrote:

they would be easier to find if all credits were in English.

Understand that on the film page all credits should be indicated in the language of the film (as in the film credits). If you change the artist’s page, then you need to change all the names in all the films of this artist, observing the language transcription.

If you write everything in English, then this will be the base of the films, and there will be another analogue of imdb that no one needs.

ensden wrote:

UG1002 wrote:

they would be easier to find if all credits were in English.

Understand that on the film page all credits should be indicated in the language of the film (as in the film credits). If you change the artist’s page, then you need to change all the names in all the films of this artist, observing the language transcription.

If you write everything in English, then this will be the base of the films, and there will be another analogue of imdb that no one needs.

We are just talking about credits.

films are allowed in original language by rules.

but for credits they say nothing really, i have started on the Korean ones most are duplicates some i have changed to English still got a bit of the way too go.

TheWho87 wrote:

UG1002 wrote:

they would be easier to find if all credits were in English.

Next time can you actually do some bloody research and not go in like a bull in a china shop, I've just had to go through and fix you mess.

If your tagging pages as a duplicate, LINK TO THE ORIGINAL PAGE IN THE DUPLICATE!!!

Add to that, update pages and link sources on what is deemed to be the main page, since you need to find that information to confirm a pages English ADD IT TO THE MAIN PAGE!!!

Only trying to fix this issue no reason to get upset.

We do speak and read foreign languages like Russian, Korean, Chinese... etc
Like many other users...
Let us not make a mess that later will need to be corrected again.
this is an international database modelled on Discogs.
There is no consensus on changing all credits to English and I strongly disagree with this.
The ongoing mass edit is against the rules and must be reverted.
This DB is a real mess already.

Only ones non russian.

maybe now all ones not made by tam89 as well

but if those ones added in korian most have been dupes because they have appered in English based films.

there was some which you made Tam which were duplicates, or you created in Korean but novbody knew they were on here.

they should be english so rhey can be found, otherwise dupes will just keep getting created.

Here's a thought; DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING FROM ITS NATIVE LANGUAGE!

Use the notes field

I am sure that the ANV issue will be resolved at some point in the near future (fingers crossed). If you're horny for adding to the DB add stuff that's not in it yet and save your editing urges. No sense in burning out on it before the site actually works and find you don't have the will to change EVERYTHING back.

DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING FROM ITS NATIVE LANGUAGE!

Use the notes field

Agreed.
We started adding credits in Russian, Chinese, Korean, Arabic, Persian etc because we believe in a good database.

And if we do not do it now it will need to be reverted later.

Same for bookogs, comicogs etc those rules are followed.

Everything else is nonsense and narrow minded.

Duplicates must be merged to native language credit as done on other sites.

UG1002 wrote:

Only trying to fix this issue no reason to get upset.

I'm not upset, I'm annoyed I have to fix you mistakes.

tam89rds wrote:

DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING FROM ITS NATIVE LANGUAGE!

Use the notes field

Agreed.

I agree in part, however these credits need to be checked against English credits for duplications, this is worse for Asian names since they have their names are styled in a different way to the west, their namess nativly are "Last/First", and are reversed to the western style when refered to in the west, this then leads into the arguments on which of these would be best used, IMDb used Last/First Wikipedia First/Last.

Either way, staff seriously need to get ANV's for credits ASAP cause this would be sorted and cleaned up easier when some proper system in place on the site rather than all of us arguing in different directions.

TheWho87 wrote:

I agree in part, however these credits need to be checked against English credits for duplications...

Yes, but this will be easier if/when the ANV system gets implimented

Asian names since they have their names are styled in a different way to the west, their namess nativly are "Last/First", and are reversed to the western style when refered to in the west, this then leads into the arguments on which of these would be best used, IMDb used Last/First Wikipedia First/Last.

This is why I use the HKMDB, and the KMDB. I know I should be putting them in chinese and korean character sets, but the lack of ANV system for credits would make them even harder to find.

Either way, staff seriously need to get ANV's for credits ASAP cause this would be sorted and cleaned up easier when some proper system in place on the site rather than all of us arguing in different directions.

Totally. I really do wonder why they didn't model the site after discogs, at least in function.

Nivekian wrote:

I know I should be putting them in chinese and korean character sets, but the lack of ANV system for credits would make them even harder to find.

And that's the key thing, I'd argue it makes sence for Asien credits to be put into English since the majority are already in English and they can be changed when/if a better ANV system is in place.

For Russian credits I think it's passed the point of no return and would do more harm than good to change them into English.

But I think a key point here is to add as many sources as possible to a credit.

An ANV system in place with rules for what is the fundamental language to store things in, and what is the preferred displayed language of a given page to ensure that the native language is displayed would be ideal later. If we could have a consistent set of rules, that will make it easier to have robust duplicate checking and other functionality to be woven in if all pages are following the same rules (that would then allow the desired native langauge of a page displayed. Or if one can even just have one's own language set with a complete multilingual interface, then even those pages could come up in English to help people quickly see the makeup of foreign films and their casts instead of drilling down on each cast member page, etc.

I'm sure this isn't a trivial thing, and if there are efforts to try and merge data between discogs and filmogs, the scale of that effort is even more.

One interim thing that perhaps wouldn't be too hard to implement, would be with duplicate checking scripts to also evaluate file names of credits (that are currently in English for many of these Russian credits), and not just the credit's names, since these in many cases could show duplicates when entering an English credit name for a Russian actor that might have his/her name in native Russian. The data is there already and likely more parseable than checking the notes field to try and find duplicate data there (where there are no rules for what is going there).

Perhaps this could help with a lot of issues in the interim, and make sure the adequate time is available to provide a good long term solution later.

I agree and support pages being in their native language, but when that amounts to less than ten credits and the majority of credits from that country being in English, I'd say it makes sense to list them in English until a proper ANV system is in place.

And I'd strongly recommend that until there is a proper ANV system in place English credits should be the default used. This does not mean going out and renaming them, but they still need checking against what's already here.

And yes I did rename a few Korean credits into English, mostly because I was checking them against other credits and as I initially said, there was less than ten while most are in English. Now that is unless someone is going to go through all the English ones and rename and source them into Korean cause that would be more logical than having just ten of them, but then again any drastic renaming like that would be better spent when an ANV system is in place.

So do we use logic and get everything into one system now fixing the minority to the majority or just do everything at the same time, while fighting over something we can't do anything about till the staff change the site and make it so we can do credits properly that can be in their native language AND be easy to find and search, cause till they make a change we can have either native languages or easy of use BUT NOT BOTH!

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